Article 11 five man selectboard back and forth discussion with Chris Bianchi

In the interest of fairness I am posting Chris Bianchi's email comments to me regarding my comments in the previous blog post "New Selectboard Member to be decided in Killington".
I will reiterate my comments and follow them with the email chain between Chris and myself.

(Vito) Comment: What is not mentioned here is Article 11 which would establish a 5 member select board. 

Article 11. "Shall the voters elect two additional selectboard members for terms of two years each pursuant to 17 V.S.A.  § 2650(b) at the next town meeting."

Notice how it does not mention a 5 member select board. In my estimation the wording is intentionally ambiguous to snare the unaware voter into voting yes without realizing what is being voted for.

This issue has been voted down recently. There is no need for a 5 man select board in our town. Generally towns that have 5 man boards are multiple times larger, with thousands of residents. Usually the rational for a 5 member board is to spread the work load among a greater number of people. In Vermont the basic form of government requires the select board to run the day to day operations of the town. It can however choose to delegate that responsibility to a Town Manager which is what our town has.

There are very few towns with a five man select board and a town manager. 

We are a town of about 900 people. How much government do we really need?
I know this article was put in at the behest of one of the current board members. His mantra is "its all in the way you present things" and I agree with him. If you present something as innocuous without revealing its true nature and consequences people are more likely to agree with you. This is the case here.
There is no pressing need for a 5 man select board so why present it for a vote unless you have an underlying agenda which is not readily apparent.
My take on this is that a board saturated with 5 like minded members is harder to turn around than a 3 member board. When the golf course mess and the frivolous 1% tax spending needed to be addressed it took 2 election cycles to elect a board which properly addressed and corrected the problems. If we had a 5 member board it would have taken 3 or more election cycles.
VOTE NO ON ARTICLE 11

ChrisFebruary 28, 2014 at 8:08 AM

To Vito's Comment "There are very few towns with a five man select board and a town manager."

When I did the research in 2012, of the 41 towns that had Town Manager form of Government, only 3 had a 3-member board and 38 had a 5-member board.

Of the 28 towns with a Town administrator (not Town Manager form), only 7 have 3-member boards and 21 have 5-member boards.

Of the 237 towns that have Selectboards, only 114 are 3-member boards and 123 are 5-member or more boards (at least 2 have 7-member boards).

We might as well have the accurate information when we make statements.

Chris to Vito

For someone who claims to want to get the accurate information out there, I'm very surprised that you would not do any research at all.  Disappointing.   

Quote:

"There are very few towns with a five man select board and a town manager."

When I did the research in 2012, of the 41 towns that had Town Manager form of Government, only 3 had a 3-member board and 38 had a 5-member board.  

Of the 28 towns with a Town administrator (not Town Manager form), only 7 have 3-member boards and 21 have 5-member boards.

Of the 237 towns that have Selectboards, only 114 are 3-member boards and 123 are 5-member or more boards (at least 2 have 7-member boards).

The reasoning for the 5 member board is not to spread the work load.  That's not it at all. FALSE!

This is not a Vermont thing, its a world wide thing.   

VLCT and ICMA describe the Town Manager form of Government similar to a corporate CEO/Board of Directors relationship.  In this relationship, the board is a policy setting board, which is what we our Selectboard is suppose to be in a Town Manager form of government.  Typically policy setting boards are larger boards.  The difference between the 3 person and 5 person board is exactly opposite of what you describe in your comment.  

Just thought you of all people would like to know the real information.

Chris

Vito to Chris

Chris,

According to your own statistics less than 10% of towns have a five member select board and a town manager. I would say that’s only a few! As for spreading the work load I got that from one of your statements when you were promoting the five man select board the last time.  So to say my comment is completely false is a bit disingenuous.  Don’t you think?

Vito  

Chris to Vito

No, Vito, your statements continue to be disingenuous and miss-leading.  Your statement, "There are very few towns with a five man select board and a town manager." tries to make people believe that, with a Town Manager, we do not need a 5 member board and that's completely opposite of common practice.  The truth is that more towns in Vermont have a 5 or more member board than those with a 3 member board and of the towns with a Town Manager form of Government like Killington, 93% have a 5 or more member board.  There is nothing misleading about my statement and no hidden agenda.

Vito to Chris

Chris,

You should quit while you think you are ahead. You keep reiterating the same statistics. Twenty one towns with a five man select board and a Town manager divided by 237 towns is 8.9%. I did the research last time and that is why recalled there was a minimal amount of towns with this configuration. I also recall that towns with low populations such as ours did not for the most part have 5 man select boards. The only one I recall is Stratton and they didn’t have a town manager.

Chris, in the immortal words of Shakespeare, you “doth protest too much.”  I must have hit a nerve too put you in such a defensive posture. And quit saying that the rationale for the five member board is not, at least in part,  about spreading the work load. It’s common sense and you said it the last time you were promoting it!

Vito

Chris to Vito

Thank you for continuing to include everyone in the replies so that the correct information is heard.

 Using your same logic, 3 towns divided by 237 is 1.3%.

 Vito To Chris

So you’re saying since we are only one of three towns with a 3 man select board and a Town Manager we need to have a 5 man Select Board? These 3 towns have an average population of 1,893 with Killington being the low with 1,122 according to the 2011 data. I don’t think that’s a very good argument.

 

However, I have to apologize for misrepresenting your data. In my haste to reply I misread the 5 member select board towns with a town administrator as being towns with a 5 member board and a town manager. So the revised calculation is 38 towns with a 5 man select board and a town manager divided by 237 equaling 16% which is still a relatively low number.

 

Nonetheless, looking back on my own research for 2011, I noted that towns with a 5 member select board and a town manager had an average population of 6,068 with only one town having a population of less than 2,300, that being Cavendish with a population of 1,379. Our population at the same point 1,122.

 

Remember my numbers are from 2011 not 2012 so yours may not be exactly comparable.

 

Vito

 

Chris to Vito

Vito,

 

Is your only argument that since we only have small population that we should not have a 5 member selectboard?  What is the economy of those towns that you looked out? What is the grand list real estate value?  What is the demand for services in those towns?  What is the winter weekend population of those towns? I don't think population alone can be the only factor. 

 

Chris

 

Vito To Chris

I think I’ve laid out several arguments against it. I don’t think that the size of the economy is necessarily separate from the population although in our case it is. Frankly, if the economy is the/or a deciding factor how did the town manage for so long with an economy greater than it is now? If you’re spurning my argument that spreading the workload is not a rationale for a 5 member board then why is the size of our economy a factor? Only one town with a Town Manager regardless of 3 or 5 member select board has a population per select person lower than ours and that is Cavendish at 275 (2011). The one above us is Dorset at 422 and they have a five man select board. If we went to 5 it would be 224 per. The average for a 5 member select board with a town manager is 1,214.

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the change to a Town Manager form of government in Killington a relatively recent development in long history of this town? I would venture to guess that change was a result of the significant economic change resulting from the ski area development.

Rather than more select people what I would rather see a Town Auditor.

 

Vito